Defected

Defected, Pesto and the copyrights

Last night was quite a hot one as the posts about pulling Ricardo Torres' PestoMix off got you (and me) really upset. Well, the dust has settled and today, I received a message from Tony Garvey, Head of Promotions at Defected. I'm still unsure if they will keep to "seek compensation for this illegal usage" but Tony's email reads very reasonable and nice.

Please find his message including my replies (italic) below:

Hi Tony,

Thanks a lot for your prompt reply! Please find my answers below.


Hey Jost - hope you are well, We have had a few direct email as I guess you have sent out a mail to your members. I understand the promotional value of podcasts as we ourselves have a very successful one that has around 50'000 subscribbers - and it is not the intention to quash anyone's love for House music, on the contrary we are trying to bring the sound to as many new ears as possible. As you know the music industry as a whole is in decline, yet the accessibility of music is possible the strongest it has ever been due to the digital revolution, but unfortunately the 2 aren't working in tandem - people are hearing about music, but not buying it in the same percentage.


Fully agree with you here.

We are a business and yes our business is Music but we have to protect our catalogue and the rights on behalf of our Artists whom spend time and money recording it.


I do second that!

It is true that we can't chase everybody who uploads music or mixes, but where we have to opportunity we do ask them to remove its unauthorized usage (Ricardo could very easily remove the 2 tracks requested, replace them with 2 new tracks and the podcast need never of suffered).



That's exactly what happened now. There is no Defected material left in the PestoMix and the new version has been posted. If Ellie had sent me a message asking to take the tunes off, I would have done it (and, in fact, did) - it was rather the "we will seek for compensation" thingy that got me quite upset. I'm sure it wasn't some standard email that's being sent out whenever you become aware of "copyright infringement" as she used the contact form on pesto.de. I do understand your point of view here (as I expressed in my reply to Ellie) but we reap what we sow. Therefore I had to comment on that as much as Ricardo and many others had to.

There have been occasion we do allow tracks to be used, but this is with prior approval and the understanding of exactly where it is going and to whom it is targeting, something we would use in conjunction with the promotion of a release - remember I am a promoter of Music and I look at ALL opportunities.



Okay, that's at least a guideline for a possible future use of Defected products, especially for those who are not in direct touch with you.

We do also give away free music - 3 free downloads in the coming weeks for Fish Go Deep, DJ Fudge and Charles Webster, all very established producers.



That's great and highly appreciated! Pesto does the same btw with the Pesto FreeBees. Though our artists may not be as established (yet) as the ones mentioned;)

I think that we are being unjustifiable targeted for just taking care of our business as the law dictates.



I have a different point of view on that one (especially as we're talking not just about copyrights but DJ culture as a whole). But as I replied to Ellie yesterday. I do see your point and indeed, I do accept it. Yet still, it's not that the law forces you to act like that - that's totally up to your decision. And sorry for repeating myself here but I want to be very clear about that: I do accept your decision. :)

We are a small company that has a big reputation and it is our music and hard work that has created that not money.


And my guess is that people are aware of that fact and that is what gets them so upset. Like said above, I do understand your point completely but the image you leave with "normal" people (i.e. not working in the music business) is like you're behaving like a Major. And sueing your clients is not considered a good business model (I'm not saying you're doing so but it APPEARS like that). So it's pure surprise that one of the "good boys" apparently turned "bad" (from my and their perspective).

Once again it is not our desire to turn anyone off who has supported our label over the years, but the current climate is very different than it was even 2 years ago and the reason we are still here is because we care and we work hard.Hopefully you now understand a little of the story from our end, I am happy to discuss directly and will entertain any opportunities for us both to work together as ultimately we all have the same love and goals



Tony, after Ellie's message got me so upset, I'm glad to read your mail. You sound very calm and reasonable and as I said before, it never was my intention to point the finger on Defected for the way they're doing their business. An easy message (without the threatening part) would have done the job. I'm furthermore glad to having received such a quick reply from you that's putting things straight in a very nice way - thanks a lot for that!

In order to be fair, I suggest I'm publishing this correspondence between you and me (without the personal information, of course) so the House lovers out there can relax or at least decide on their own which point of view they will take.

cheers...Jost



Best Regards#TG


PestoMix 008 by Ricardo Torres [update 2]

PestoCast150x150
[update 2: the new & improved PestoMix 008 by Ricardo Torres is available!] We just received a message from Defected stating an unauthorized use of music that Defected holds the copyright for.

We are sorry to say that we have to pull PestoMix 008 off the page until this issue is being solved. We, as all the other labels that have been part of the PestoMixes before, consider this free promo for the artists and labels we love. On the other hand, Defected is totally right from a legal point of view.

Sorry for any inconvenience.
[update: after publishing this, we got a lot of reactions from all over]

Ricardo Torres' statement (posted on the Traxsource and SSRadio forum, too):
read here

Here's what I posted on Undergroundhouse.net (you need to register first to read the thread):
"Went through this thread after somebody pointed me to this one - good read.

I'm running a small label called Pesto Music and today, I also received one of those letters as the latest free (!) PestoMix by Ricardo Torres contained two tunes from "In The House". Here's what they said:
"I have received a newsletter with a PestoMix that includes 2 of Defected tracks that are unreleased. Defected has not granted you any authorisation to use them and we control the copyright. Please remove them from this mix immediately. You are giving our music away for free when you do not have the rights. We will seek compensation for this illegal usage. Please email me immediately."

First off, the tracks had been released (how could Ricardo buy them on Traxsource otherwise???), second...well, you all said that about supporting & stuff.

I know it smells like cheap self promo here, but I just wanted to let all you jocks know that we at Pesto & Traxx gladly embrace the opportunity of you guys supporting us by putting our stuff on your mixes. You're furthermore authorised to use any Pesto & Traxx tunes in your mixes (and it'd be great if you'd let us know so we can link back to you). We also experienced that FANS put up our music on youtube - and hey, we say "thank you" for doing so.

I'm not saying Defected are dick heads - from a legal point of view, they're right. I just don't understand their way as I believe putting tracks in mixes won't hurt your sales rather than support them. Strange world we're living in...

cheers...Jon Silva, Pesto Music"

Defected, there are two ways: either you're trying to treat your biggest supporters as criminals or you're trying to bash your competition (are you afraid of Pesto, really now?). Either way, the stance you're taking is hardly understandable by the House music community, especially not by the ones that buy your products and supported you throughout the years of your existence.
Apparently, you haven't understood what the internet means and how it works. When somebody else put up Simone de Nauw's "Luv" on youtube, we said "thank you for the support" rather than asking the respective person to take the file down. The steps you take will result in damaging your image as the leader of House music labels as so many people are connected nowadays. You would have had the chance to get your products promoted for FREE but you rather chose to do harm to your artists and your public appearance. What a pitty.